Estee Lauder Exec and Mom on Guilt, Balance and Enjoying the Ride
On Wednesday, I attended law firm Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson LLP’s annual Women-to-Women dinner in New York City, designed as a mentoring and networking event for the firm’s female lawyers and their clients. Sara Moss, (pictured) executive vice president, general counsel and secretary of the Estée Lauder Companies Inc. and mother of four gave the keynote speech. Ms. Moss talked about her career, having children at 36, 38, 40 and 42 — one with serious health problems — and the challenges of juggling meetings, school events, business trips and children’s ear infections.
Here are her top 10 tips for making it all work, as well as some excerpts from her speech:
10. It’s a Juggle, Not a Balance: “Different things take precedence at different times, as they should. If you have a sick child, that’s what’s important. If you have a trial, that’s what important. . this way you can achieve some balance over time. Remember, it’s a marathon, not a sprint.”
9. Take Care of Yourself First: “You’re going to need energy for this juggle.”
8. Stay Focused on What is Important to You and Don’t Sweat the Small Stuff
7. Don’t Apologize for Your Choices: “To your children or anyone else. Many of us are fortunate enough to have interesting work that is challenging and rewarding. We shouldn’t feel guilty about it . . . Now, I did not do this, for many years. I spent a lot of time feeling guilty.”
6. Don’t Demonize Other Women’s Choices: “I do have a confession — any time that a child got into real trouble at one of my kid’s schools, the first things I wanted to know was whether the mother worked, and if their mother didn’t work, I said, ‘oh I‘m glad!’ That was bad of me. Don’t do that! Every woman is. . .trying to figure it out the best way she can.”
5. Establish Routines that Reinforce Time for the Relationship or Passion: She mentioned making time for exercise or reading to kids every night.
4. It Takes a Village to Raise a Child: “Look to your family and good friends to create a community and support for your children.”
3. Create Quality Time Whenever You Can: Ms. Moss said that when her children were old enough, she took them on business trips. She also created the “eighth grade trip,” taking one child alone on a trip at that point to wherever they wanted to go, including Egypt and different parts of Europe. On the trips, she said, she could spend time with that one child, which was “different from the zone defense I was used to.”
2. Be There When You Are There: “You can actually go to the park without your BlackBerry.”
1. Enjoy the Ride: “I feel that doing this juggle . . that I have a wonderful, rich, interesting life.”
and if their mother didn’t work, I said, ‘oh I‘m glad!’ That was bad of me. Don’t do that!
…
That is very mature of you. However, you can rest assured that they’re doing it to you.
What did the father of these children do? How did she handle child care; and how did her kids turn out?
Overall, she seems quite admirable!
#11
Make sure your job pays millions of dollars so that you can farm out your responsibilities.
Take Care of Yourself First: “You’re going to need energy for this juggle.” — this says it all. I’m not doing it for the kids, it’s all about me. The kids are part of the ego that’s to show I can do it all. As long as there is a 7 figure salary. I will no longer buy Estee Lauder products
Do you also refuse to fly any airline that instructs parents to put on their own oxygen masks first before helping their children?
To Boston Lawyer…. good one.
To everyone else, check out #7 and #8. Live and let live, please!
Because she has a large salary and her work is different than yours, you think what she said is false or has no meaning? As one single person in the company, she does not have complete control to make all of the changes some of you seem to think are needed. If conditions are really that bad in Estee Lauder, then someone would have made a public issue of it. Then again, no one has to work for a company they don’t like.
.
I don’t make six figures since I am in the early part of this new career - after having a great business career. Yet these key points are accurate for my life. When I was working full time and going to law school, friends were tremendously helpful. My son watched me juggle everything and learned several important lessons. for example, he is better at a tactful “I’m sorry I can’t do that right now” than I am. Some of the greatest moment with my son happen at odd times like on our way somewhere or preparing a meal. That would seem to be making quality time when and where you can. And if taking care of oneself is selfish, could Realist please explain how someone who has run themself into the ground or not done their preventative health screenings and thus does not catch the disease when treatable done the family a favor? Almost every father I know takes care of himself first.
What a load of Hogwash. These women-to-women conferences spouting off all this drivel about “work-life balance.”
What next, a Wall Street Investment Banker conference on “Zen and the path to spiritual enlightenment?”
First, I congratulate these women on having a successful careers. However, by definition you cannot have had any work-life balance if you chose a high paying high power career that demands alot of hours. It’s simply not possible, so stop kidding yourselves.
Smart comments from Boston and TX Atty. That being said, I tend to cringe at the “take care of yourself first” stuff. I think that’s because the one woman I know who openly pledges to do just that is VERY self-centered. It goes beyond annual doc appts, diet and exercise and sufficient rest (all of those things make total sense to me)… My coworker has three or four lifestyle guides - a spiritual guide, a workplace comfort guide (feng shui?) - who actually came in and yelled at our boss for choosing a “jarring” paint color that would destroy this woman’s ability to concentrate, a diet monitor and a parenting mentor. And the top of her Outlook To Do list is invariably, “Take Care of Myself.” It’s this level of “self care” that makes me roll my eyes. I just want to tell her to suck it up most days.
Instead of yet another BS list of feel good statements from a successful women, it would be more interesting to hear how she handled a day when her child was sick & she had a trial.
As a professional women, it has become to me so boring and condescending to hear women drivel on & on about how difficult their lives are etc, particularly when they do have the money to outsource most of their juggle.
Let’s hear concrete examples of the tough decisions women have made and how it did affect their child, marriage or job instead of this feel good you can do it all BS.
Otherwise lets just get back to the business at hand for each of our industries and focus on networking or seminars on changing jobs in the new economy, instead of these types of worthless “women to women” type of crap.
I am one of those women with money to help me out of tough situations. Meaning I have a nanny so if ny child is sick this does not change my schedule, nanny is fully qualified to handle this and so on.
I don’t waste time when I spe to share stories with other women about how I solved a problem
Good point, Minneapolis. Some people take that WAY too far. Others haven’t taken it far enough. I have given up exercise entirely, for instance, and haven’t been to the doctor (except the OB/GYN) since I was pregnant the first time. And I’ve always been sure that I would, in fact, put on my kids’ oxygen masks first, if it came to that. I take her point, though, that the mom-martyr thing has its costs, too (I would add: including the psychological costs to kids of coming to see mom as a person without independent needs).
sorry last line should read
“I don’t waste time when I speak to women about how it is possible to juggle, I share stories about how I solved a problem on a given day.
This was the first time when I felt that the executive’s comments were actually applicable to my life. I didn’t get that she was saying that her life was easier because she had a SAHH or nanny or whatever. Yeah, sure she earns a boatload of cash, and she can afford to pay for care, but it’s kind of nice to know that she acknowledged the “when a kid is sick, a kid is sick” moment. I don’t get what some of the previous posters are complaining about. Her ethos sounds similar to my own and I’m not a highly-paid executive.
I think there’s something valuable to take away from what she’s saying - at a high level:
- Do the best you can and don’t judge others
- Be present
- Accept help and support
I know I could learn from that!
Did she actually tell the people there that she took care of her sick child instead of attending to important business?
Just because she mentions that she acknowledged her child was sick doesn’t mean she just didn’t go to work anyway.
Her ethos may have nothing to do with her actual everyday life.
It’s just so pathetic that women are so dependent on listening to other women to make themselves feel better.
I don’t see anything on that list that is new information.
I agree this list is pretty sensible, a mature person could figure it out on their own. I too think these “women-to-women” lunches are drivel. How about a luncheon discussing the mentoring younger staff who are female? I think working to develop a female “girls club” is probably more valuable. A discussion of how you handle power plays at work, how to keep yourself visible to the higher-ups in a good way, and encouragement through the discussion of work challenges is most helpful (and probably such a luncheon should be company or industry-specific).
I was invited to a similar event last night- hosted by an investment bank. I give credit to Fried Frank, for having a woman speak even if she is a client instead of a senior partner. This firm didn’t even have a senior woman in the US to speak to the women that were invited for networking etc. Many of us admitted that there are so few senior women at the big banks/brokerages because of the grind of working at these places. The constant travel, long hours can make it very difficult to juggle. I agree with most of the advice above. The comment about the village is key for me as I rely on my husband, aunt and grandparents for coverage.
What’s up with all of the hostility today? I think all of the items on her list are a bit generic but wise for any parent to follow. I also have a hard time with the “take care of yourself”. My husband is currently in an residential alcohol treatment program and I attend support group and family therapy and they keep telling the family members “take care of yourself”. When am I supposed to do that if I am attending 3-4 hours per week of family therapy sessions on top of working and taking care of the kids? If I really wanted to take care of myself - I would book a spa weekend and get a couple nights of 8 hours+ of uninterrupted sleep. But I wouldn’t actually do that given the daily responsibilities of my life at the moment.
There are mnay situations where it is almost impossible to take care of yourself.
Maybe there is a friend or relative that at least could give you a break so that you can get some sleep, so that you can have the emotional and physical energy that you need to deal with your husband’s situation, the children, work etc..
It’s hard in these situations.
I have to admit, I’m the type that would leave my husband in this situation and just focus on myself and the kids, let him solve his own problems.
Perhaps she mentioned her marriage during her keynote speech, but neither marriage nor husband made it to the list. Is she a single parent? Most working mothers at her level also have husbands — and their own career, health, and mid-life crisis issues — to juggle along with the job and kids. I would have expected at least one “spend regular scheduled time alone with your spouse” to be up there with “it takes a village.”
FYI, Fried Frank has plenty of women partners (fewer women than men to be sure, but a decent amount in the world of biglaw) and, in fact, one of the two managing partners is a woman. The idea behind this event, as I understand it, is to bring together women from a variety of practices and industries for mentoring and networking purposes.
They held a similar event last year that had more of a focus on mentoring and I don’t even know if the key note speaker had children.
I also attended the event and enjoyed it. While I love hearing from women who have acheived great success, I often walk away somewhat envious, but also wondering if they’re really giving the full picture of the sacrifices that are made in order to achieve such great results in one’s career. How much do the kids care that you only make it to one out of four soccer games or that you had to watch their school play on video a few days later?
I’m still not sure where I come out on this, but I’m sure not going to fault these successful women for trying to keep a dialogue going.
While many of the posters above seem to take offense at the simple messages relayed by the speaker, her message is actually highly relevant and was no doubt very well received by the women lawyers in her audience. As an attorney mom in a large firm myself, I can tell you that it is Exceptionally rare to find senior women lawyers with children, much less 4! Never mind the juggle, we women attorneys in bigger firms are still coming to grips with the possibility that we can even have children and remain in the work force. She is a great example and I appreciate her message - especially the one about there being no true “balance.” Once you accept that, everything else becomes clearer. But that doesn’t make it an either/or life. You can’t have it all, but you Can have a demanding job And a family. Just tell that to all the average middle class families out there who Have to work. My parents - refugees from SE Asia - obviously did ok, even though they had to work multiple jobs and raise 4 kids, And learn English. What kind of juggle do you think they had?
Nice comment Boston Lawyer! I haven’t been taking care of myself and as a result my family deals with it- if I’m tired, sick, frustrated that I haven’t been exercising…so I believe she is right. You go girl!
Anonymama, hats off to you. Like another poster, I think I would have walked away, or at least strongly contemplated walking away. What you are doing is truly a juggle and I wish you the best of luck.
Your parents were struggling for survival, that’s not a juggle, they kept moving because they had to, they did not have the luxury of choosing to juggle.
In my opinion, people are juggling because of the chioces that they make in life, they can control their juggle by adding in or taking out things that they deem more or less important.
The Estee Lauder Exec is doing this all because she wants to, no one forced her to have 4 children and take on this position at a firm.
So I don’t give women credit for juggling, we all make choices good or bad.
Very few of us if any are doing this because we have to, we have options.
Minneapolis, that’s just hilarious! Sounds like she’d make for a great character in a movie or office sitcom.
OK, I’ve heard a lot about how women in high powered jobs with families handle the juggle. Surely they must concede that it HELPS their juggle to have a high-powered salaried job with benefits. What about the women who DON’T have these things? When I was in college, I worked fast food with a number of moms, some married and some not, who have a much more difficult juggle than I ever will. When I have a doctor appointment, I have health insurance to cover the costs, an assistant to hold down the fort at work, a boss who doesn’t question my decision and a salary to ensure I still get paid. Women without these benefits have to make REAL sacrifices in their juggle, not just suffer pangs of guilt over not “doing it all”. I’m not trying to minimize anyone’s juggle here- we all have our crosses to bear. Just wanted to add a different perspective.
To What about the regular people? - May 16, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Believe me, I realize and am grateful to have such good fortune and I thank God frequently for the many blessings I’ve been given. I know I’ve worked hard to achieve what I have but conceed that much was available at birth (wonderful middle-class parents) and some was just plain good luck!
She can go to the park without her Blackberry, but is she really OK if her lawyers do so?
File this under inane advice.
I find women networking events a waste of time and everything said by keynote speakers just common sense. Ditto here.
Are some people being forced to go to women’s networking events against their will or something? I go to the networking events I’m interested in, which includes some working mother oriented ones, and skip the ones I don’t care about. I don’t see the existence of, say, a charity golf tournament that I don’t care about as a problem.
Spot the odd one out.
A. Sara Moss giving advice on work-life balance;
B. John McEnroe giving advice on how to be polite to tennis umpires;
C. Marion Jones advice on to win without cheating.
you can’t job out parenting 4 kids. I don’t care how good the nannies, how involved the dad and grandparents etc. Moms need to be there - a lot. Quantity time please!
these self-justifying rationalizations are puke-worthy.
I was there - and I am glad I was. I didn’t have them to farm them out.
Does the WSJ know of women in line positions, especially in manufacturing, instead of just staff ones who are juggling it all (and without help from SAHHs)?
Women who are profiled here are often lambasted for the way they manage the juggle.
I guess you can’t have it all. You may have a successful career and a family that you enjoy, but you will never gain approval for how you do it.
Wow, nice to be rich, you think letting the father of your children care for them is “farming them out”? Gatekeep much?
khazeh, great point. I also found it quite telling that she emphasized “quantity time” as an imperative. Interesting, my SAHM was home 24/7 but she never did anything with me other than take me to the doctor, take me to school, or yell at me to clean my room. We did sit and eat dinner at the table every night - no, I’m going to argue its the QUALITY of the time that is more important than the time spent.
Lets ask a female senior litigation partner at fried frank how to balance work, family and an affair?
I love posts like this. I am desperate for tips and advice from senior women so anything I can get is great. thanks.
Amen to “another view” and “what about the regular people?” My husband and I (because we, gasp!, conceive of our children as a shared joy and responsibility) don’t really “juggle” b/c we have a wonderful nanny and siblings and parents in the area and children with no disabilities or special needs (yet). We are tired, but cognizant that we are damned lucky to have relatively lucrative jobs and job security.
As for taking care of oneself, skipping OB/Gyn appointments isn’t doing your little ones any favors. Something that goes undetected is their problem, as well. I go to the doctor when I need to and am perceived as not being there when needed every so often. It’s my luxury as an attorney to do that (heaven forbid I do the same as support staff). I’m not known as being there 24/7 and will likely suffer for that, but I’ll be damned if I sacrifice my health to how I’m perceived at work.
Sure, she has money to make it easier, but… I believe her list is simple and correct. Especially taking care of yourself. You can’t give to others limitlessly, unless you keep filling your cup up!
Part of leadership is being optimistic, thoughtful, and making good decisions (aka practicing good judgement).
You can’t do any of those if you are sleep deprived, eating junk food, and lacking in exercise. If you are burned out from work, you can’t be creative, either.
Sometimes the best way to do well at work is NOT to work. I don’t work for any employer who doesn’t grasp that. I put in my 12 hour days a lot, but I also watch myself for signs of burn out and take a break.
I’m a little tired of hearing people say they “can’t” take a break. Fact is, if you tell a reasonable manager what’s going on, AND you have been a great performer, that manager is going to cut you some slack.
If not, you’re either not a good performer or you’re in some insane profession like investment banking. And let’s face it, bankers *know* what they are in for when they sign up, as are BigLaw folks.
I just don’t see enough people taking responsibility for their own choices, it’s easier to criticize others for making different ones; when in fact we all have different value systems.
And my value system values 8 hours of sleep a night above all else. I won’t work anywhere that doesn’t value this; I chose to go to school and get a degree so I wouldn’t be forced to work in a factory job like my parents.
Our choices make us who we are.
I’m not sure what is more remarkable, the speech or all these blogger comments. It all sounds so defensive, but what about thinking “offense” instead of “defense”? Are we powerless to change what is perceived as the norm (work-comes-before-home-and-then-stress-out-about-it-because-we-fear-we-will-lose-our-jobs)? Maybe it’s time for a new evolution of thought, a new “liberation”. Balance or juggle, we only have so much time do try our best to do what’s right for ourselves, our children, our family, our community, our workplace, our world. I am a firm believer in making time for yourself and for your family. It feels natural. After all, did you really have children so you could NOT spend time with them? Spending quality or quantity time should come naturally, so you don’t feel like you have to calendar “time with family” in between meetings and conference calls. Perhaps such scheduling feels unnatural because it is. We want to nurture, cultivate without guilt. Why not liberate ourselves from this way of thought? We need strong women leaders to demonstrate how to make that leap. One should feel empowered to do so.
The reality is, for many of us, “the trial” is NEVER more important than what’s happening for the child. The child doesn’t care how much money you earn, or whether you have an interesting life. The child just wants a mom. They are not some life accessory to be put down when convenient and picked up again when its easy to. A sad commentary on our world’s crappy priorities.
You can tell right away who are the kids of working moms in our private school classroom. They’re the ones with the dirty clothes, the bad lunches, and the ones waiting for someone to pick them up after 12 hours of school/daycare at the end of a long hard day.
